Added: Jul 26, 2008
From: JohnLArmstrong
Duration: 8:22
http://www.godvsthebible.com/Addressing the apparent paradox of the belief in a supernatural First Cause of a strictly natural universe. Why am I so skeptical about claims of revelation, magic and fantastic beings in the Bible?EDIT TO ADD: On reflection, I'm a little embarrassed on how easily I adopted the word "supernatural" in discussing God. As this other video by WizardJim that I just saw points out, it's a nonsense word:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83iOOfVnhmYBased on usage, it seems to mean nothing more than something we don't understand. Hypothetically, if I'm right that there is a First Cause, than it must also have properties that could be theoretically understood with enough knowledge. Anything that exists should be "natural" by definition. My bad. Well, it's beside the point of this video anyway, which is to explore how someone can believe in a Creator but still reject all the nonsense of the Bible.
Channel: People
Tags: bible deism freethought god miracles nature skeptic study
Rating: 4.85 (112 ratings) Views: 1648' favoriteCount='24 Comments: 114
theothinkthank Says:
Aug 30, 2008 - x00p3: You said 'when I was a child I believed that Bible God could do anything..But I was also constantly bombarded with this idea from my Christian peers...'. Listen. Yesterday ended last night, today is a new day. Look at the future, and ask yourself: can I believe in GOD with a child-like faith? God, are you real? "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His rightenousness and ALL THESE THINGS...", 'all these things' include your understanding and most importantly, relationship with GOD.
x00p3 Says:
Aug 30, 2008 - Quote: "....you criticize this and that about GOD in the Holy Books?"I was a fundamentalist Christian for over 26 years, Charismatic/Pentecostal the first few years, then a reformation Christian for the ladder half.I studied the Bible extensively and examined other religions too, so you are mistaken if you think I know nothing about revealed religions. You "guesstimated" me.Can you answer my question now?How do you know the Bible is the word of God?Explain please.
K2Tanner Says:
Aug 30, 2008 - I was thinking the same alien analogy today. wierd.
theothinkthank Says:
Aug 30, 2008 - x00p3: you said " I was a fundamentalist Christian for over 26 years, Charismatic/Pentecostal the first few years, then a reformation Christian for the ladder half.". Labels like fundamentalist, charismatic, pentecostal,reformed, deformed, etc don't matter, they box GOD...including..deist, theist, atheist. It does not matter what people say about you...what matters is what GOD will say about us: "if you acknowledge ME before others, I will acknowledge you before My Father".
theothinkthank Says:
Aug 30, 2008 - x00p3: you said " I studied the Bible extensively and examined other religions too, so you are mistaken if you think I know nothing about revealed RELIGIONS. You "guesstimated" me.". I never asked about RELIGIONS. I asked about GOD (and you are still observing, so you are guestimating GOD). I am NOT interested in man made religion, I am interested in GOD. All these times I have been asking about GOD, including to John Armstrong about his "IT" GOD, defined in his "on-line book".
theothinkthank Says:
Aug 30, 2008 - x00p3: you asked "Can you answer my question now? How do you know the Bible is the word of God?" I will explain. 1) How do I know John A calls his "god" IT? Because he said so in his book. 2) How do I know Obama said "issues are never simple. One thing I'm proud of is that very rarely will you hear me simplify the issues" because he said so in 2006. 3) How do I know the Bible is the word of GOD? Because GOD said so...not because you don't say so or John Armstrong doesn't say so. Clear analogy?
x00p3 Says:
Aug 30, 2008 - Thinkthank you said: "How do I know the Bible is the word of GOD? Because GOD said so."So when and where did you hear God say the Bible was the word of God?
lonestar1961 Says:
Aug 31, 2008 - No church man or woman punked me out. God did it and you hit the nail on the head about revelation. Not many Christians know what it is. I call those folks 99 percenters. When you got the revelation you are a hundred percenter. You looked at the issue with some insight but you did make some implications that somehow all Christians were pressured into it. I have not been the impressionable type for a few decades and got the call at 42.Ditch the pride.You're not entitled to what I have.
elite227 Says:
Aug 31, 2008 - Your religion is nothing more then fairy tales written by bronze age racist sexist men.
theothinkthank Says:
Aug 31, 2008 - x00p3: you asked me "So when and where did you hear God say the Bible was the word of God?". What kind of question is that? Didn't I give you 3 examples and you still don't get it? I'll elaborate: If Obama said something, printed in NY times, do I need to have him talk to me to confirm? You don't get it. God said it in the Bible, and I read the Bible. I thought you used to be a "fundamentalist" (a man-made label), and you still do not understand the basic fundamentals?
Tarkus101 Says:
Sep 1, 2008 - Using the bible to prove the bible is nothing more than a vicious circle.
theothinkthank Says:
Sep 1, 2008 - Tarkus101:"Using the bible to prove the bible is nothing more than a vicious circle." Really? Give me a better alternative. Maybe Karl Marx's opinion of the Bible is more credible?
x00p3 Says:
Sep 2, 2008 - Quote: "If Obama said something, printed in NY times, do I need to have him talk to me to confirm?"Anytime a book or collection of books declares itself to be God's written word, that should not be taken lightly. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
theothinkthank Says:
Sep 2, 2008 - x00p3:"Anytime a book or collection of books declares itself to be God's written word, that should not be taken lightly. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." Hmm. The Bible if full of extraordinary evidences from an extraordinary GOD. It is translated into 438 languages, with full or partial translations in 2,454 languages..with more than 2 billion christians on earth. More sold than John Armstrong's "God vs The Bible"...I guess...Aren't these numbers are extra-ordinary??
x00p3 Says:
Sep 3, 2008 - Quote:".....Aren't these numbers are extra-ordinary??"Yes, but believing something is true because of it's popularity is a fallacy known as: "Argumentum ad populum".Quote: "More sold than John Armstrong's "God vs The Bible"...I guess."Oh come on now, John's book's only been around less than a decade, not a few thousand years. Give it some time to grow for Pete's sake! :)
voiceofrichter Says:
Sep 4, 2008 - "Theothinkthank, you say you're not interested in man made religion? Then why do youbother with a Bible written by fallable men. The Bible even says ALL men are corrupt liars.
theothinkthank Says:
Sep 6, 2008 - voicefrichter:""Theothinkthank, you say you're not interested in MAN MADE religion?". Correct. On Bible? "...written by fallible men..". Correct. "All men are corrupt liars..". Correct. You missed mentioning GOD, though....Understand?
theothinkthank Says:
Sep 6, 2008 - x00p3: "Yes, but believing something is true because of it's popularity is a fallacy known as: "Argumentum ad populum". Aha...you missed the point. I was referring to "extraordinary". You asked for a sign, I gave one.
theothinkthank Says:
Sep 6, 2008 - x00p3: On John's "God vs The Bible book" selling less than the Bible, maybe the title should have been "John vs The Bible"...it may help selling..or making it to NY Times Best Seller List, to start with..
x00p3 Says:
Sep 6, 2008 - Evidence.
theothinkthank Says:
Sep 7, 2008 - x00p3: You asked for "evidence" of extraordinary claims in the Bible? I thought you were a once fundamentalist and you asked for "evidence?". Let me help. Gen 1:1 "In the beginning GOD..". Tell me alternatives of BEGINNING and of GOD.
x00p3 Says:
Sep 7, 2008 - There's no real evidence the Bible was written by God. You have to have "faith" to believe it. You should know this yourself. Why don't you admit it instead of arguing.
x00p3 Says:
Sep 7, 2008 - Note: I apparently placed my comment in the wrong space so I'm reposting it here.Thinkthank, There's no real evidence the Bible was written by God. You have to have "faith" to believe it. You should know this yourself. Why don't you admit it instead of arguing.
theothinkthank Says:
Sep 7, 2008 - x00p3:"There's no real evidence the Bible was written by God". Who said GOD wrote the Bible...you mean GOD had a pen, wrote the books in ink or dictated it like in other "religion"...cmon, you WERE a fundamentalist. You know better what "bible" (biblia) means...
theothinkthank Says:
Aug 30, 2008 - x00p3: I asked you to define GOD for me and you said "From my experience and observations,(I am still observing...". Your experience? Subjective. "Am still observing..?" You are at this state? And you criticize this and that about GOD in the Holy Books? Do me a favor. Get your definition of GOD settled first within you, then maybe you can "guestimate" the God of the "Holy Books"..You don't know what you don't know...